Comments on: The All Sufficient God, Sermons on Isaiah 40 by Martyn Lloyd Jones http://upsidedownyouth.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/the-all-sufficient-god-sermons-on-isaiah-40-by-martyn-lloyd-jones/ Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:15:08 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Caleb Burnison http://upsidedownyouth.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/the-all-sufficient-god-sermons-on-isaiah-40-by-martyn-lloyd-jones/#comment-1447 Caleb Burnison Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:56:15 +0000 http://upsidedownyouth.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-1447 Here are some resources that speak to your questions. The Genesis 6, http://www.johnankerberg.com/Articles/_PDFArchives/bible-for-dummies/BD3W1102.pdf -No intention to offend with the name on that link. To speak to your point, you take issue with the doctrine of Limited atonement or (particular atonement). I too struggled to understand how this could be true and Biblically sound. It took a few years of my own personal study of Scripture to come to the conclusion I have on the subject. This debate has gone on for centuries throughout church history and continues to this day. My personal testimony is that I have accepted Reformed Theology or the doctrines of grace to be true and what Scripture teaches for over 8 years now. A book that convinced me of this truth is Grace Unknown by RC Sproul. It clarified some questions I had about Reformed Theology. In my understanding of Scripture, I struggled with a few things; Why is everyone is not saved? God surely has the ability to save everyone but He clearly does not. My follow up was well how is that fair? In my understanding of who God is he is both merciful and just. Sin must be punished. The larger question should be why did God save me at all? I deserve God's wrath because I am sinner (Jonathan Edwards, Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God). The references Scripture uses to the elect, chosen people, chosen generation, royal priesthood, his church, his sheep, children of God, the family of God, his people are abundant which I will provide some resources that reference those below. Another question that I had was if God is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. God has omniscience which means He knows all things then how would he not know who is saved and who isn't. The answer I received from some is well God limits himself and doesn't know that. Well, if God limits Himself then he is not God. Now man does not know who is a part of the elect and who is not so that's why evangelism is crucial and a command of Christ to share the Gospel. God is both merciful and good. He is sovereignly in control of everything that takes place so it is His will. He is the Almighty God and I trust his judgment not mine. There is a greater good. The truth is we all deserve His wrath but God is long-suffering in saving those who will believe. Then another question I struggled with is how can man choose God? Scripture teaches in Ephesians 2 that man is dead. We are unable to save ourselves. So the question is man a little sick in need of a doctor in his sin? Or is man dead in sin as Paul teaches and even the section of Genesis 6 tells us that every inclination of man is evil all the time which Romans also teaches as well. Can an evangelist go to a cemetery and preach the Gospel to graves? Who will respond to the Gospel in that case? No one. God makes the blind see. It is only through new birth and regeneration that God awakens souls to Him. For God calls His sheep and they know His voice as John tells us. So Reformed theology to me is a God-centered theology whereas those who do not preach the doctrines of grace is man centered theology because man then has the ability to choose God. In this case, then there is no need for the cross if all men are saved in their choosing of God, when Scripture tells us otherwise. I would agree with you that God's love and grace is open to all but not all receive that gift. This should not discourage us, as God told Abraham, I will make your descendants as many as the stars in the sky. This includes the multitudes, who are giving God praise for all eternity and those who will in the future. God is merciful and just in this regard. Personally speaking, I am unified and work together with my Christian brothers who do not agree with me on this issue. Again, I am not trying to convince you either for that matter but giving a basis for where my understanding of Scripture lies. I know God's will in redemption will be accomplished and God will not lose one of his children. Some further resources, http://www.apuritansmind.com/TULIP/LimitedAtonement.htm http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/index.html http://www.gospeloutreach.net/limited_atonement.html Thanks for your comments and thoughts. Here are some resources that speak to your questions.

The Genesis 6, http://www.johnankerberg.com/Articles/_PDFArchives/bible-for-dummies/BD3W1102.pdf
-No intention to offend with the name on that link.

To speak to your point, you take issue with the doctrine of Limited atonement or (particular atonement). I too struggled to understand how this could be true and Biblically sound. It took a few years of my own personal study of Scripture to come to the conclusion I have on the subject.

This debate has gone on for centuries throughout church history and continues to this day. My personal testimony is that I have accepted Reformed Theology or the doctrines of grace to be true and what Scripture teaches for over 8 years now. A book that convinced me of this truth is Grace Unknown by RC Sproul. It clarified some questions I had about Reformed Theology.

In my understanding of Scripture, I struggled with a few things; Why is everyone is not saved? God surely has the ability to save everyone but He clearly does not. My follow up was well how is that fair? In my understanding of who God is he is both merciful and just. Sin must be punished. The larger question should be why did God save me at all? I deserve God’s wrath because I am sinner (Jonathan Edwards, Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God). The references Scripture uses to the elect, chosen people, chosen generation, royal priesthood, his church, his sheep, children of God, the family of God, his people are abundant which I will provide some resources that reference those below.

Another question that I had was if God is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. God has omniscience which means He knows all things then how would he not know who is saved and who isn’t. The answer I received from some is well God limits himself and doesn’t know that. Well, if God limits Himself then he is not God. Now man does not know who is a part of the elect and who is not so that’s why evangelism is crucial and a command of Christ to share the Gospel. God is both merciful and good. He is sovereignly in control of everything that takes place so it is His will. He is the Almighty God and I trust his judgment not mine. There is a greater good. The truth is we all deserve His wrath but God is long-suffering in saving those who will believe.

Then another question I struggled with is how can man choose God? Scripture teaches in Ephesians 2 that man is dead. We are unable to save ourselves. So the question is man a little sick in need of a doctor in his sin? Or is man dead in sin as Paul teaches and even the section of Genesis 6 tells us that every inclination of man is evil all the time which Romans also teaches as well. Can an evangelist go to a cemetery and preach the Gospel to graves? Who will respond to the Gospel in that case? No one. God makes the blind see. It is only through new birth and regeneration that God awakens souls to Him. For God calls His sheep and they know His voice as John tells us. So Reformed theology to me is a God-centered theology whereas those who do not preach the doctrines of grace is man centered theology because man then has the ability to choose God. In this case, then there is no need for the cross if all men are saved in their choosing of God, when Scripture tells us otherwise.

I would agree with you that God’s love and grace is open to all but not all receive that gift. This should not discourage us, as God told Abraham, I will make your descendants as many as the stars in the sky. This includes the multitudes, who are giving God praise for all eternity and those who will in the future. God is merciful and just in this regard.

Personally speaking, I am unified and work together with my Christian brothers who do not agree with me on this issue. Again, I am not trying to convince you either for that matter but giving a basis for where my understanding of Scripture lies. I know God’s will in redemption will be accomplished and God will not lose one of his children.

Some further resources,
http://www.apuritansmind.com/TULIP/LimitedAtonement.htm
http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/index.html
http://www.gospeloutreach.net/limited_atonement.html

Thanks for your comments and thoughts.

]]> By: John Holmes http://upsidedownyouth.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/the-all-sufficient-god-sermons-on-isaiah-40-by-martyn-lloyd-jones/#comment-1446 John Holmes Thu, 23 Apr 2009 18:58:04 +0000 http://upsidedownyouth.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-1446 Dear Caleb, thank you for taking the time to respond to my intepretation of what the bible actually says which, in my view, seems at odds with what John Calvin wrote in one particular instance. I have read a good summary of his Institutes and they are undoubtedly excellent but the piece about election, chosen/ predestination appears to refute the rest of his exccellent work. As far as my quote about God repenting of creating man and all living creatures is concerned this was based on Genesis 6:5-7 5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. Have I mis-read this piece? My primary cause of concern was that John Calvin has given the impression that God is arbitary and has decided from the beginning who will/will not be saved. I response to this The Banner of Truth kindly sent me details of John Calvin's sermons on Genesis and I was overjoyed by what I read. But all of these excellent writings are cancelled if, according to Calvin, God really has decided in advance those who will/will not be saved. One of the quotes Calvin uses in making his case is Romans 11:5-6. However it is necessary to read chapter eleven in its enterity to understand the correct context of verses 5 & 6. Romans 11 to me make it clear that Paul is stating that the Jews (Istrael) are God's elect. Thank you John. PS While I don't claim to be a theologian or Academic I have done a considerable amount of research about this matter and am still convinced that God's offer of Love and Grace is open to all. My belief is based on the fact that God sent His Son to save sinners and not 'some sinners.' I of course am aware that there will be those who prefer to remain wilfully ignorant and they will rightly suffer the onsequence of thier choice. Dear Caleb, thank you for taking the time to respond to my intepretation of what the bible actually says which, in my view, seems at odds with what John Calvin wrote in one particular instance. I have read a good summary of his Institutes and they are undoubtedly excellent but the piece about election, chosen/ predestination appears to refute the rest of his exccellent work.
As far as my quote about God repenting of creating man and all living creatures is concerned this was based on Genesis 6:5-7 5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. Have I mis-read this piece?
My primary cause of concern was that John Calvin has given the impression that God is arbitary and has decided from the beginning who will/will not be saved.
I response to this The Banner of Truth kindly sent me details of John Calvin’s sermons on Genesis and I was overjoyed by what I read. But all of these excellent writings are cancelled if, according to Calvin, God really has decided in advance those who will/will not be saved. One of the quotes Calvin uses in making his case is Romans 11:5-6. However it is necessary to read chapter eleven in its enterity to understand the correct context of verses 5 & 6.
Romans 11 to me make it clear that Paul is stating that the Jews (Istrael) are God’s elect. Thank you John.
PS While I don’t claim to be a theologian or Academic I have done a considerable amount of research about this matter and am still convinced that God’s offer of Love and Grace is open to all. My belief is based on the fact that God sent His Son to save sinners and not ’some sinners.’ I of course am aware that there will be those who prefer to remain wilfully ignorant and they will rightly suffer the onsequence of thier choice.

]]> By: Caleb Burnison http://upsidedownyouth.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/the-all-sufficient-god-sermons-on-isaiah-40-by-martyn-lloyd-jones/#comment-1444 Caleb Burnison Tue, 14 Apr 2009 23:21:32 +0000 http://upsidedownyouth.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-1444 Allow me to answer a few of your comments. To answer your first question, Sin came from the good thing God made. Now, it is important to note that God is simply not reacting to things that transpired. Scripture is all of redemptive history which means it is all God's plan. Through the covenant of works all humans inherited sin from Adam (Genesis 3:15). God never repented for making man. He destroyed all humans with the flood because they were sinful and deserve his judgment. Noah was spared because he had faith and was counted righteous (Hebrews 11). Sin continued after the flood because man is still sinful in a fallen world. He sent His Son Christ because He was sinless, perfect and God incarnate. He is the only sacrifice that could atone for man's sin. God placed his wrath on His Son. Christ bore the penalty of sin, so that man could be saved from God's wrath. God awakens this truth in our lives through the new birth (regeneration). The believer's sin, guilt and shame is removed by faith in God through believing in Christ's death and resurrection. The believer is then credited Christ's righteousness thus making the Christian pure and holy in God's sight. This process is called justification. The five solas provide the foundation of our faith. It is true there are those who will die in their sin because they do not believe. I hope this clarifies some of your thoughts. I would encourage you to read Ephesians 1 and 2. If you have further questions, feel free to leave a reply. Allow me to answer a few of your comments. To answer your first question, Sin came from the good thing God made. Now, it is important to note that God is simply not reacting to things that transpired. Scripture is all of redemptive history which means it is all God’s plan. Through the covenant of works all humans inherited sin from Adam (Genesis 3:15). God never repented for making man. He destroyed all humans with the flood because they were sinful and deserve his judgment. Noah was spared because he had faith and was counted righteous (Hebrews 11). Sin continued after the flood because man is still sinful in a fallen world. He sent His Son Christ because He was sinless, perfect and God incarnate. He is the only sacrifice that could atone for man’s sin. God placed his wrath on His Son. Christ bore the penalty of sin, so that man could be saved from God’s wrath. God awakens this truth in our lives through the new birth (regeneration). The believer’s sin, guilt and shame is removed by faith in God through believing in Christ’s death and resurrection. The believer is then credited Christ’s righteousness thus making the Christian pure and holy in God’s sight. This process is called justification. The five solas provide the foundation of our faith. It is true there are those who will die in their sin because they do not believe. I hope this clarifies some of your thoughts. I would encourage you to read Ephesians 1 and 2. If you have further questions, feel free to leave a reply.

]]> By: John Holmes http://upsidedownyouth.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/the-all-sufficient-god-sermons-on-isaiah-40-by-martyn-lloyd-jones/#comment-1443 John Holmes Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:46:46 +0000 http://upsidedownyouth.wordpress.com/?p=322#comment-1443 “What is our reaction to the gospel of God? It is quite plain that we have all sinned and that every one of us merits punishment and death and hell. The above is part of a quote from Martyn Lloyd Jones book "The all Sufficency of God." For many years I struggled to understand a number of things about Christianity. For example who created sin in the first place. Genesis seems to point to the Serpent (who God had created) and who beguiled Eve and she in turn beguiled Adam. From then on all mankind were infected with sin albeit, if I understand Genesis correctly he still retained the Image of God. As a consequence of sin entering in our world God repented for having created man. Why? He then decided to eliminate all living creatures etc except for Noah a rightous man. Was this because God accepted responsibility for the serpent's tempting Adam and Eve? After the flood sin continued unabated and as I understand things God set about redeeming mankind. Why? Further to that why did He bother to send his Son to earth to be tempted when we all deserve nothing but His wrath. Why not simply wipe us all out. We also read in both the Old Testament and New that God not only will's 'that men will come to repentance' and in the Old Testament that, God declared that 'he who turns from his wicked ways will be saved.' How can we repent and turn from our wicked ways if, according to Calvin, God has presdetined all that happens, including sin presumably, and elected those who will/will not be saved. Oswald Chambers has stated that we all have inherited the sin of our fathers and I go along with that. This being the case we are of course in need of being saved rather punished as none of us had any choice about coming into this world, who our parents were and the environment in which we are brought up. Those who do not respond to the inbuilt sense of guilt are of course punished by being allowed to continue in sin as this is a self inflicted punishment. I have endeavoured to make clear the development of my thoughts and faith and hope it makes sense. I feel it is vital that we have a clear understanding about how sin entered into the world, I firmly believe that the fact that God repented of creating man is quite important as why would He repent of something that he knew would happen. I will sign off now. Any constructive comments are welcome. John “What is our reaction to the gospel of God? It is quite plain that we have all sinned and that every one of us merits punishment and death and hell.
The above is part of a quote from Martyn Lloyd Jones book “The all Sufficency of God.”
For many years I struggled to understand a number of things about Christianity. For example who created sin in the first place. Genesis seems to point to the Serpent (who God had created) and who beguiled Eve and she in turn beguiled Adam. From then on all mankind were infected with sin albeit, if I understand Genesis correctly he still retained the Image of God. As a consequence of sin entering in our world God repented for having created man. Why? He then decided to eliminate all living creatures etc except for Noah a rightous man. Was this because God accepted responsibility for the serpent’s tempting Adam and Eve? After the flood sin continued unabated and as I understand things God set about redeeming mankind. Why? Further to that why did He bother to send his Son to earth to be tempted when we all deserve nothing but His wrath. Why not simply wipe us all out. We also read in both the Old Testament and New that God not only will’s ‘that men will come to repentance’ and in the Old Testament that, God declared that ‘he who turns from his wicked ways will be saved.’ How can we repent and turn from our wicked ways if, according to Calvin, God has presdetined all that happens, including sin presumably, and elected those who will/will not be saved. Oswald Chambers has stated that we all have inherited the sin of our fathers and I go along with that. This being the case we are of course in need of being saved rather punished as none of us had any choice about coming into this world, who our parents were and the environment in which we are brought up.
Those who do not respond to the inbuilt sense of guilt are of course punished by being allowed to continue in sin as this is a self inflicted punishment.
I have endeavoured to make clear the development of my thoughts and faith and hope it makes sense. I feel it is vital that we have a clear understanding about how sin entered into the world, I firmly believe that the fact that God repented of creating man is quite important as why would He repent of something that he knew would happen. I will sign off now. Any constructive comments are welcome. John

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